BPP 163: Nur Tucker - Underwater Wildlife Photography

Nur Tucker, an underwater wildlife and conservation photographer with decades of experience who’s work has to be seen to be believed! Today I am excited to to chat about some of the challenges that shooting underwater presents!

In This Episode You'll Learn:

  • How Nur got into photography

  • What drew Nur to underwarter photography

  • What came first, Nurs love of photography or diving

  • Some Safety concerns photographers need to worry about while underwater

  • How Nur plans to photograph sea life like sea lions, clown fish, and turtles.

  • How much preparation is involved to bring a camera underwater

  • Nurs most used piece of gear

  • The underwater camera housing Nur uses to photograph underwater

  • How to plan for your shot when you cant change lenses

  • How much creativity Nur has with all the constraints of being underwater

  • What you need to know to get started shooting underwater


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Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!

Full Episode Transcription:

Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.

Raymond: 00:00:00 This is the Beginner Photography podcast. And this week we are taking our cameras under the sea. So let's get into it.

Intro: 00:00:08 Welcome to the beginner photography podcast with Raymond Hatfield, the podcast dedicated to helping you grow your photography skills. Raymond interviews the world's top photographers in their field to ask questions that will get you taking better photos today. Now with you as always, husband, father, home brewer, La Dodger Fan and Indianapolis wedding photographer, Raymond Hatfield. Thanks

Raymond: 00:00:37 So much for joining me today on the beginner photography podcast. As always, I am your host and wedding photographer, Raymond Hatfield and I'm so excited to get into this interview. This interview is one that I haven't done before and I think that you are really going to enjoy it. But before we get into that, I want to talk a little bit about my week. It has been a crazy busy week because I've been trying to do a lot of things to plan out where the podcast is going to go. Right? What do I want the podcast to be? For a long time. I was trying to do everything from, you know, youtube videos, blog posts, obviously podcast. I had an Alexa skill you know business training within the Patreon, which the Patreon is still alive and well, but there's not the, the, the same videos that go into it every single week.

Raymond: 00:01:26 So, and I'm doing this all by myself and I got kind of burnt out. So I pulled back and then I just started focusing just on the podcast episodes itself. Oh yeah. I'm also doing interviews and editing and creating show notes for the podcast. So I pulled back and I started just focusing on the interviews themselves and I'm happy to where we are now. I like the format that we have and we're going to definitely move forward with that. But I'm still thinking about where I want to take the podcast. How can I help as many people as possible? Because I know that you're listening to this podcast because you have a problem. Your problem is that you want to be a better photographer and I want to be able to help facilitate you to get to where you are. So this week I have been putting up a lot of resources for you, the listeners and by creating a resource page on the website.

Raymond: 00:02:19 So this resource page has things like recommended gear, recommended software, and even some free trainings that you can download. Now this is going to be the place to go where you need suggestions or recommendations. So if you haven't already, feel free to check out the new resource page by heading over to beginner photography, podcast.com. And then just click the resources tab right up at the top. It's all that you got to do. There's going to be a bunch of stuff there, but you can you know, take advantage of and enjoy right now. Now as I said, I've been updating that. Now the next thing that is going to get updated on that resource page will be my mini course, which is called Picture Perfect Pricing. So if you have ever struggled or felt guilty for charging people money for your photography, for your work than fear no more, I am going to break it down, not only how to get over that mindset that is really holding you back from actually earning an income with your camera.

Raymond: 00:03:19 But I also show you exactly how to price your work with a custom made plug and play, easy to use spreadsheet with video tutorials on how to use it and know for certain that what you charge is, is, is going to be enough and it is going to be profitable for you. So you will be able to find out more about that by heading over Learn.BeginnerPhotographyPodcast.com So today's interview is a nice long interview. So I'm going to give it, get into it real quick. But before we do that, I want to give a shout out and this week's shout out is for Trent. Trent left a five star review on iTunes and I want to share it with you because I truly do appreciate every single one of you who are listening. This lets me know that you are listening and that you are a real person and that that you picked up something from the podcast that is helpful and I want to share that.

Raymond: 00:04:17 So Trent says, this is a fantastic podcast to get started and keep moving you forward. Raymond does an incredible job with the beginning of photography podcast. He pulls in professionals from all different areas of photography to discuss not only his, not only their career, but how they got started. All of this relates to the photographers wanting to grow and even start a business someday. Raymond himself, that's me, brings a wealth of experience as a wedding photographer. Check out his podcast if you are a photographer looking to get better. Trent, I appreciate you. That is a, a fantastic review. That, that, you know, I'm, I'm so glad that talking to photographers and learning where they started really helps you on your journey. I know that it helps me on my journey. You know, I don't know how everybody else had started, but I know how I got started.

Raymond: 00:05:10 So when I hear you know, how other photographers got started, that gives me insights into, you know, where can I be focusing more and learning to grow my photography in a way to get to, you know, wherever you want to be faster. So Trent, again, thank you so much for leaving a five star review on iTunes. Okay. So let's, like I said, this is going to be a nice long interview. You are going to hear my daughter interrupt us, I believe twice. So get ready for that. But we're going to go ahead and get on into this this interview right now with Nur and she is an underwater photographer and I think this interview is really going to open your eyes to what it takes to get the shot that you want. So let's get into it right now with Nur Tucker.

Raymond: 00:05:57 Today's guest is noreNur Tucker, an underwater photographer with decades of experience whose work truly has to be seen to be believed today. I am excited to chat about some of the challenges that shooting underwater presents. So north thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Nur Tucker: 00:06:13 Oh, thank you very much for having me.

Raymond: 00:06:15 Of course. I kinda like we just spoke about right before I press record, I've never interviewed an underwater photographer. I've worked with an underwater or I guess a cinematographer who specialized in shooting underwater. But at the time I was also at work with him so I wasn't able to really chat kind of about the challenges that being underwater with a very expensive piece of gear and trying to capture something with with intention, kind of the challenges that that presents. So I'm really excited to have this time free together to be able to, to get into this topic. Cause a lot of beginners. Obviously you have questions, but first before we get into all that, can you tell me and the listeners how you got your start in photography in the first place?

Nur Tucker: 00:07:02 I think before photography I started doing on the rule to photography, which is a funny starting points a year, 1998, I was in Thailand on a holiday kosumi. And I didn't really intend to do scuba diving at all, but there was a scuba diving course, a diving school at the resort. And I'm always open minded. I said, look, I'm here for two weeks. Why don't I try this for a few days? And I enrolled it was a Pati course,utwo days of, you know, some classroom, whatever, reading the book at nighttime and,usome pool sessions for the basic skills. And then for open water dives, which was the best part. And I still remember the first time ever I put the mask on and the BCD and all that, and I died the first time over.

Nur Tucker: 00:07:51 I looked down and I saw this last blue and I was so lucky there was a school of fish going at the same time on my feet. I still remember it. It just gives you goosebumps. It's a, it was this infinite blue with the school of fish on there, my feet. And I didn't know how deep that was. It looked like pals and meters. It wasn't definitely, but I was serious semesterized at that point I said, I love this and I want to continue. So that was the diving bit. So I did my certificate there in Thailand and then another holiday. It was more these, this time they were doing an advanced [inaudible] advice for the, sorry, there is a phone calling. There was an advanced buddy certificate course, so I did that as well when I was doing the course. The instructor wrote of really Mickey Mouse Camera.

Nur Tucker: 00:08:43 So the course that we're doing, the advanced version of the paddy course didn't even want it to tell. Probably look underwater. You can even take photos or either it was that, it was such long time ago, I don't remember. Or he wanted to say, look, you didn't need good buoyancy to be able to take photos. But it was yellow. I think it was Mel Torme. Marianne, I think so. You can even find them on Ebay these days. So you t you put slides in it, so it's a film camera, it's like point and shoot really Mickey mouse. And there is one strobe on it just on and off. So it's that simple. So I took some photos with it and when I came on land and I saw there was fish, there was color, it was unfocused. And I'm like, oh my God, this works. I was expecting everything to be murky, whatever.

Nur Tucker: 00:09:30 So that 1998, I became interested in underwater photography. But obviously when I thought, oh my God, I take these photos, they're amazing. When I look at them now they're embarrassing bad. I understand that for sure. So that was the starting point I did. I liked it. I can add further things to it's basically underwater is such an amazing world. Firstly, I thought maybe I was efficient in my previous life. I don't know. I love all too, so much. That's my goal too. And safe place. You know, I really feel happy when I'm on underwater. The quiet, the tranquility, the pace of the animals or the fish swimming like sting rays or the turtles. It always brings me tranquility and I love that. And you don't think about in a politics and your politicians, economics, inflation, none of that just it's completely pure tranquility, which I like that.

Nur Tucker: 00:10:26 And the quiet of that. You also have to accept as you dive more and more, you witness more of the underwater world. And you see what a big biodiversity's that and the, the umbrella of the animals, the species you see on the Rother is Bret there for example, you can easily see minuscule things like microscopic things that you can only see big diopters, magnifying lenses such as like a smaller than a small ant, like a skeleton shrimp or a new daybreak. Or you see more than 10 meters, 10, 15 meters long. Like whales. Like the blue whale for example, is massive. So such diverse staff that you see a semester rising. I think it's nice to witness that. And if you think about the 70%, even 71% of the earth is water and the lifestyle in the water a billion years before blends. It's important we have to know it.

Nur Tucker: 00:11:26 Not everybody knows what's going on on the water. And I think as you dive take photos, you basically become an advocate for the water, for the animals. And obviously you can also talk about the dangers that are presented to not only the sea life, the animals, the fish, the Reeves with the pollution that the plastic, even the sun creams. I stop using some creams now because he can't really damage the reefs. Really. [inaudible] oh yeah. Yeah. I mean obviously all my dive buddies, they are big environmentalists. They are, you know, they like to preserve nature animals. We care immensely about the underwater world. The last time I was traveling, I was in Philippines, one of my diabetes and I just putting cream on my buddy and she, is that reef safe? I felt so bad. I'm like, AH, no. It's difficult to find it in England. No excuse. And now that I've been even use this because it can really damage anyways in a nutshell, there is so much basically that makes you fall in love. Yeah. [inaudible] Yeah.

Raymond: 00:12:32 That being underwater, just being so removed from your normal everyday world that you see above land is just has to be an incredible experience, a very transformative experience. So I kind of want to go back to that moment where you got that first camera, you got those slides back. You kind of mentioned that the diving was, was more of a, what was more of a holiday activity to you? At what point did you think like, I can actually pursue this instead of just, I'm just going to do this every so often when whenever we go on holiday.

Nur Tucker: 00:13:05 Yeah. So when I came back from that trip right away, it was more these, and I haven't used and Mickey Mouse Camera, all of a sudden I become an expert. So I went to, I can't remember the name of the company, but there was in London, in embankment, there is a company that sells a little on the Royalton year, not the cameras, but in my corner they have a camera set up as well. So I went there and I said, I will not buy it. And econ Aussie, it wasn't Nkomo Stan, it was a specific new designed underwater camera. So I bought that again, it's a worked with film. So e six and I bought one, you know, on and off stroke is, it's either on or off. And I started shooting. So I went to the Caribbean, I went to the Red Sea. I you use the tubes back then, just to frame the photo.

Nur Tucker: 00:13:52 It was completely primitive, but you know, some of the photos and I got better and better, but while I was there at that shop, I saw one ad, there is a workshop, Martin Age, I still remember the person is called Martin Age. He's an English photographer. Actually it was the first person ever I went to workshops with. We did. I contacted him and he was really lovely and he still loved me anyways, I still see him. He's one of the very important people for underwater photography world. He had like four books published I think. And I've read all of them. So I contacted him and I said, look, I want to do some workshops. So I took my camera, I went to him and we did some classroom sessions, about four hours. And then we went into the pool. We work with some silk flowers, like those fake flowers that you use at home.

Nur Tucker: 00:14:42 So we put some weights on them and we put them into the water. And basically he showed my, all the initial techniques, which I would like to talk today, actually do for the beginners later on. [inaudible] So basically what you see is not what you take because when you take the full soul of the silk flower, I could easily see the weight that we tied the, you know, silica Lauer to the stem and then all the mosaic, the ugly mosaic of the pool behind, and then read badly exposed silk flower. So this is what you see and, and then you taught me what to make out of it. So the next picture in, obviously after I learned all the tricks was negative space. You created the negative space. Meaning I know on the seed, the mosaic in the pool, I know on the sea that the weight ugly, you know, a weight that I just want to see a beautifully lit slip flower against the black background.

Nur Tucker: 00:15:38 Okay. How did we do that? So creating a negative space. So that was the first lesson basically I learned from him. So I did some the pool sessions and then I did some trips with them as well. So I ran to Red Sea, moldy, use a few different places with them. So I, every time you go on a workshop with similar minded people, they are not just diverse, they are not even dyed with their photographers, underwater photographers. That is so important. You can't just take photos while you're diving, you forget about diving, you dive. So the need to take photos. So if everybody's a photographer is excellent, but if you go on a diving trip with your camera, it doesn't work. And it never worked for me.

Raymond: 00:16:24 I see. I see. Okay. Yeah. So let's, let's unpack that a little bit. I want to know a little bit more about this workshop. When you went to a store and you bought that, that camera you said that it was a film camera made for underwater. Yes. Is that, is that what you brought to this workshop and if so, was it just a, it was just a point and shoot camera or were there manual controls?

Nur Tucker: 00:16:45 Actually, I'm trying to remember. I might have even had the wrong recollection with Martin Edge. I had another camera, which was a Nikkon again and on the log, very old type film camera. But it was that which I brought. But in between I went to another ladies, Linda Dunk. She was offering workshops. I went there with my Nikkonos actually it was so brand new, the whole packaging. I had to open it in front of her. I didn't know how to put it together. And she said, oh my God, what kind of people are on my trip? Yeah. She said that apparently famously. And then I proved her wrong a few days later. I had some really lovely photos with her teachings and she was happy with what I did.

Raymond: 00:17:27 So I guess, I guess the question that I am trying to get at here is, sorry, were you, did you already have an understanding of manual photography at this point or was everything just point and shoot and how did you learn? Where did, where did your education for photography come from?

Nur Tucker: 00:17:44 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. Origin really when I started doing photography was point and shoot. And then gradually it started to evolve. It was again with Martin Edge. I learned all the basics about ISO, the shutter speeds, the operative priority and all that. We see it. It was it's a long experience. It takes time. You learn all these, but putting it in action and executing its, you know, properly and efficiently when the time time comes and quickly it takes time. No, obviously I learned everything. So every time, you know, I eliminate a photo. It is, it is good. Perfect. You know, in terms of the lighting, in terms of the exposure, but it took a long time. It's really took a long time.

Raymond: 00:18:29 So did you, did you practice all of your photography underwater or did you spend much time here on land? To, to, to,

Nur Tucker: 00:18:37 No, it was, it was on the Walter, it was if you ask about the other stuff, which is for another thing later equine is very, very recent. Only in the last few years basically it was all on the water. I did everything on the water. The problem was originally I was working, I used to be a banker, so I used to be on trading floors and working long hours. I had two kids and obviously you tried to learn everything during one week of holiday that you have booked in a year and then you go and you start learning not only the camera but also the housing, the strobes, the whole thing. How this work, I don't even remember. You start from scratch. Oh, you learned a lot during the week and then when you come back you throw the camera too on the side, kids work, et cetera. The, you know, the pressures of the life gets in and basically until the next year you forget everything again.

Nur Tucker: 00:19:30 You start from scratch I guess. So it was a very, very slow learning curve for me. My photography really improved when I retired five years ago because not only I could spend time on the photography, but I could die more. Like I could do four or five trips a year. Sure. And then, and obviously don't forget initially it was analog, but with the tech knowledge, the digital, my learning curve became exponential because the feedback is imminence, you know? Otherwise you had 36 frames, take it. You don't even remember what settings you used when you took them and you come back from the trip. You had them developed. Oh, tough luck. Just like it was the wrong set of things then. And you don't even remember what settings now with the digital is imminent. You just take a photo, have a look at it, and I'll know this is not good. It's, Oh, I have to increase the shutter speed, I have to reduce this ISO. Definitely I have to reduce it. Or you know, my strobes, I have to turn them down and it's just, even if you can do fine and now also it's not expensive. You can take hundreds shots of the same little new dib rank and then one of them will be great.

Raymond: 00:20:33 Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to be limited to just the 36.

Nur Tucker: 00:20:37 Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's what it says.

Raymond: 00:20:41 So before we get too deep into the photography side into it, I kind of want to get a bit more context of diving in because you're underwater. Like this is a potentially life and death scenario that you can find yourself in. So can you give me a quick safety lesson on, on diving?

Nur Tucker: 00:21:04 Okay. A photographer's oxygen to safe die was probably, no, that's the joke. But underwater photography is really difficult. Sometimes I say after all these years, this is particularly difficult because you're not just the photographer. There are some branches of the photography which are not forgiving. And you really have to be a wizard in what you're doing in terms of technicalities, in terms of your exposure, control, et cetera. But on the rotor you have to be an excellent diver first. It is imperative. I can't really stress this enough. You have to be a very, very accomplished diver, but it doesn't mean that you have so many certificates in paddy. You really have to have the man hours on the rotor and the experience because the stability of yourself on the rotor is paramount to taking a stable shot because you act like the tripod of your housing and camera and they are heavy equipment.

Nur Tucker: 00:22:07 Yes, the water lifts a little bit, but at the end of the day, I will show you something that you just become. HRA is this big. This is only the camera. This is only to camera and it has the, it doesn't have the trims on it. Like the strobes, the stroll bombs and the tripod, whatever. So it's quite a heavy. Sometimes you need just one hand to use the whole thing because maybe you use just one finger to stabilize yourself against the current. So on the router obviously your depth gauge is very important. Your nitrogen levels in your body is very important. How deep you are. Are you diving with air or Nitrox? Depending on that, what kind of nitrox level or oxygen level you have in your tax depend depended on that. Your maximum, that varies. You have to know that and you can easily be sidetracked with taking a photo.

Nur Tucker: 00:23:02 Sometimes it happens to me like, oh, it needs a little bit more light under the chin. Oh, the light should come from up. Oh, maybe I should, you know, take the strobe arm a little bit to the side. Or I have a model, for example, I want a model. I want the person model who, who's beaming a torch at me in between too. Big Gorgonian [inaudible] I tell him, go up a bit, go down a bit, go left a little bit while I'm doing that, it happened once, I found myself at 37 meters and I wasn't supposed to go lower that 33 for that particular dive, which was dangerous. So obviously you have to keep an eye on your death gauge, on your oxygen levels. Like what kind of, how, how much air do have left. You may finish at 32 meters. Nothing is coming anymore and there's nobody around.

Nur Tucker: 00:23:53 This is quite dangerous. So I think you have to be looking after yourself because most photographers will be looking after themselves. We say, buddy systems are important, but as soon as we dive, normally we lose the by the, in the first one minute or so. So please look after your deck, gauge your computer, you know, your air and check these all the time. Basically on dorms. They and don't do a Decaux. We normally do. No Decaux dives a underwater. So you do maybe three minutes at five meters on the way back we do normally the 60 minute dives. We try not to do longer than that, but these are the, obviously this is for ourselves, but it is very important not to touch anything and respect the underwater photographer as well. They are taking photos. They can become, not on purpose, but disrespectful to the environment.

Nur Tucker: 00:24:49 This involves touching the reefs, breaking the reefs. You know, if you hold the reef, that part that you hold, it dies imminently or your fence are you? Yeah, exactly. The minute you touch something, it dies. And sometimes sorts of Reeves, it takes a hundred years to form. It is a shame. So you should be respectful. Don't do the thing kicks, don't kneel. Even if it's a mock diving, for example, that you do. Which just, just sand or volcanic sand in Indonesia, we go to Soloway Z, it's just black sand. But even then, we try not to touch the water. There could be something hidden on the sand or, you know, we can also danger ourselves. We can talk. There are so many tiny creatures that your eyes don't see damaging. So, exactly. We shouldn't touch anything.

Raymond: 00:25:40 Yes, yes, I got ya. Very recently there was, I believe it was just the other day there was an article posted that there's a lavender field in France who I guess because of social media became famous, people would come and take pictures in this beautiful lavender field. And then everybody knew where this place was droves and droves. The photographers were coming to take photos in this field and it has now ruined this, this farmer's business because of people trampling over just the lavender. And it's, it's a very unfortunate situation now. Lavender is not something that takes hundreds and hundreds of years to you know, regrown. So I would just imagine that, that, that feeling of protecting the environment that you're in has just got to be so much more powerful. For sure. Yeah.

Nur Tucker: 00:26:26 That's quite the similar situation. Of course. Whether it is any rape scene, like some beautiful reefs or even wrecks, you know, rigs can be damaged. Like there are all these beautiful wrecks in the Red Sea. Like this'll go on, for example, that was sunken during the World War and it's amazing. It was carrying artillery to the war and it still has all the Sh the four wheel drives, the big trucks, the motorbikes, et Cetera. Inside. It's, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I died many times. I can't dive enough. I want to go again. But I'm, we see each year thousands of tourists are visiting that if everybody touches one little thing, it's just going to damage the whole Dereck.

Raymond: 00:27:07 Yes. You have a picture in a, in an, I saw one of the photos on your website that it looked like a, a motorcycle attached to a ship underwater with a nice blue

Nur Tucker: 00:27:18 Oh, that must be okay. [inaudible] Yes, yes, yes, exactly. That is [inaudible]. Yes, there was a diver in the back. Yeah.

Raymond: 00:27:26 So, and so that kind of brings me to my next question for, for something like a, a wreck. You, you know what it is that you're getting into. You know that you want to go down there and you have an idea of what it is that you want to see to capture that photo. But a lot of your photos are of, of the sea life. So before you go down, do you have an idea of the specific animals that you want to go out and shoot where you dive or do you just go diving and then hope for the best?

Nur Tucker: 00:27:57 Oh, I see. You're saying for the, if it's a wreck, you know what you're shooting, but if it's just the wreck, if it's just a, you know, you just dive. What I can say is the following obviously this is nature. You don't know what you're going to get. It's like, I don't know if you've ever done a safari in Africa. Nope. I've done, oh, I done maybe like 10, 10, 15 times. So lots of different places in Africa. It's never the same. You may take the same route every single time is different. One day you see a leopard, the next day you see a stork, the other there is another bird or some artwork, whatever. So knowing that this is nature, nothing is guaranteed. But what we do is we don't just take a camera and just go dive somewhere. We have a clan workshops are normally advertised for the category.

Nur Tucker: 00:28:48 For example, they say it's macro workshop or super macro workshop or it's a wide angle workshop or it's a rec photography workshop, or it could be sharks. For example, once I've done great hammerhead sharks intervening Bahamas, the sole purpose of the trip is just the pack picture. The great hammerheads in Bimini, they come there only for two weeks during the year. And there are feeders, shark leaders, they basically bake them, just they put the, they put the charm and the whatever blood and all that, and we wait on the boat. Sometimes it takes seminars for the fin store arrive exactly, sometimes five minutes. So for that one, you know, you want a great hammerhead, which means you need a wide angle lens and the Strawbs accordingly. So you need longer arms. And everything is according to the, the whole setup. But if you go to Sulawesi Land Bay, for example, in Indonesia, you know that you're going to do macro photography.

Nur Tucker: 00:29:50 So don't even bring your wide angle lens or a dome with you because you're not gonna see anything bigger than probably this or that size. Or sometimes they can go so small. As I said, they're microscopic. You need some big magnifying lances and you do super macro because you read it. Try to blow up a tiny tiny shrimp, maybe a or a new Dib, rank, whatever. So you know, you have a plan on your mind, what kind of creatures you want to take. But it is always the luck. Of course. It's always the luck that basically you just have one land. Even then even then, sorry for example, let's assume you do macro photography, but still there are so many different lenses. For example, I have a one oh 5 million lands and I ha I have a 60 minute lens. Obviously one oh five is tighter.

Nur Tucker: 00:30:42 So one oh five I would use to take Billy Small minuscule stuff together. We did diopter that I use and diopter I can put it outside the port so I can screw it later on like a plus five plus 10 sub C diopter. Just to magnify it further from the One oh five mill lens, this is your mom taking a little shrimp or maybe tiny pygmies mushrooms like a 30 millimeter, something like this. Okay. So I do, so I put a one on five mill lens and all of a sudden that is like, you have a really big blurring octopus, which is very difficult to see and it is not the right lens and it happens. It always happens. You need the underlies, but once in a while of course. So in a situation like that and you're just, you're just out of luck, is that it?

Nur Tucker: 00:31:29 Yeah, of course. Yeah. I don't mind you. You improvise. Okay. You know what? I'm gonna focus on the eyes off the octopus rather than the whole thing. Or why don't I just check the pattern, not the beautiful pattern on the skin. So you can improvise, but it will not be the photo that you would normally shoot situation. But there is always a plan. So these are the basic plans. But the other plans is we always have an idea of what kind of image I want underwater. Okay. Sometimes I say, you know what, I want to do a panic shot this time. So I want to put my a shutter speed really low, like a quarter of a second, but that really high aperture number, like an f 22 or bigger. And obviously my strobes shouldn't be very, very strong. So I want to just plan a sea horse just as if the sea horse is on the run or just to show, show some moments, some artists together elements. So then you just do your adjustments accordingly. Are you going to do a panic short or are you going to do a backlighting? Maybe I want to just do the silhouette of the seahorse. Then I don't want my strobes. I just want to do backlighting. Then you can just put the torch behind the seahorse. Then it is important that you take a torch with you. Yeah, yeah. No, I would have just got it. You can always plan. Exactly.

Raymond: 00:32:47 So in a situation like that where you wanted to backlight a sea horse, you said bring a torch with you. Is this something where you can do both things yourself, where you can hold the torch and backlight the seahorse with the camera?

Nur Tucker: 00:33:00 I'll have a hand. Yes. Yeah. I assistant, I can do it myself. Ideally and some great photographers or some famous photographers they afford to have or they are lucky to have an assistant lighting assistant or a model for a wide angle shots. I don't have that luxury. What we do is in terms of the macro photography for example, I tried to do everything myself. Believe me. Sometimes I go down, I just think like I knew the shopping bag there. There are so many tools I need like a tripod or maybe some elastic pass to attach the torch to the tripod or some other things. Maybe how many different torches I have. Some, some of them is a narrow beam. Some of them is a wide angle theme. Some of them is for the, you know, the port, the muddle, the tripod and sometimes we use snoot just to eliminate a tiny thing.

Nur Tucker: 00:33:55 So when you put the whole strobe on the animal, if it's tiny then it will eliminate everything. But I want just the animal in the darkness against the black background. So you use a snoot just to eliminate like, like this pen, just this is the light beam coming onto the minuscule animal. Yes. That is really helpful. If somebody holds it for you, that is ready to help because it's so difficult because the minute you move it that rose as well. Animal is moving. Sometime the animal is actually on top of the, I'm sorry the phone. This is the animal. This sometime is on top of a moving thing. For example, a sea urchin which is moving on top of it. There is the little shrimp for example and I'm trying to like the shrimp shrimp is moving, the CEO's Shin is moving on the needs that and that is the currents and the roles that as well.

Nur Tucker: 00:34:46 And then when I moved the camera, every time I'm moving, the light is all over the place. Sometimes it's just a nightmare. So it wouldn't be very helpful if somebody helps you put the light and what we do sometimes once in a while, depending on how friendly your dive buddy is, you can help each other saying, look, I can help you and can you help me? Can we take turns? She made this atlas with the back lighting as well. I don't want to put it you, sometimes you put the torch on the floor and then it rolls because orbit is not really a straight, you put the torch. Perfect. You like eliminating the CFRs on the back dominion. You're trying to take the photo, it rolls. This is not good. And you do it again back and forth, back and forth. Exactly.

Raymond: 00:35:25 So a few questions there. One of them is how often do you use a tripod, tripod underwater and what what sort of a situation would you, would that come in handy?

Nur Tucker: 00:35:40 Tripod? it worries you don't have to have a tripod. If you can do it sometimes it's very helpful. Let me tell you why you use a tripod. For example, if you want to do something artistic, let's assume I'm in a wreck and there is a diver in a very bright suit, yellow or red and I wanna take you know, Real Kurtz and photo off the diver which means I'm taking, it has to be on a very low shot to speed less issue, right? And I want the diver to have the movement effect in this shot. So I see the diverse face but by the time the shot is taken, if the diver is swimming, the back is a bit blurred as if there is moments effect. Right. In order to get that right, I think tripod would be great because you're on such a low shutter speed, there's going to be movement or you will shake the camera.

Nur Tucker: 00:36:42 That will be helpful. But you can always try to rest it on something. If it's available, you can find another little rock or a, I don't know, some other formation around. You can use that. You can always put it on the sea bed. You can do that. Or if the shutter speed is not that low, you can assume that the lifting power off the Voltar will be okay. This is for wide angle for macro. I try to basically perfect the back lighting. Sometimes look, if it's a seahorse, I can always rest the torch on the seabed. But let's assume I put the torch on the seabed, but the crab or the sea of Orzo, the little shrimp that I'm trying to eliminate this here, sometimes I can't find the angle just to eliminate the back. So it is really a good targeted little, one of those really cheap tripods.

Nur Tucker: 00:37:35 It's like this big on Amazon. Yeah. You just take it with you and I can even just clip it on basically. And I quickly attached the torch on top of the tripod. So you, you use that to keep the torches? Sometimes the backlighting I do that. Or sometimes for example, you may have seen it on my website. Sometimes you take these little gobies yellow gobies and a beer bottle. Oh yeah. Beer bottles or bottles and they make them their home. That little tiny yellow gobies. They're normally a pair in a bottle. So if you want to give a special effect, like sometimes I have on up the red light just towards the bottle inside. So as inside the bottle is, eliminates a dread towards outside [inaudible] I noticed again, just a, you can either put it on the side or use a tripod, little mini tripod. That's quite cute. I like that. Yeah.

Raymond: 00:38:28 So, so the use of the tripod is mostly for achieving a creative effect.

Nur Tucker: 00:38:35 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's not, it's not essential. It's not essential, especially for beginners. Photography is really nice actually.

Raymond: 00:38:41 Sure. So I know that when I, when I go to shoot a wedding which is primarily what I do, weddings, engagements, it's very easy for me because you know, I know where I'm going, I know what is gonna happen. And like we were talking about earlier, there's very little chance that I'm going to be in a life or death situation. So can you talk to me about kind of the planning that is involved in going to, to that goes into your work because you mentioned there just a moment ago, sometimes you just want to bring a whole bag full of gear.

Nur Tucker: 00:39:17 Hmm. Yeah.

Raymond: 00:39:18 In the case or do you go down there with a, with a, with a photo already in your head that you're going to try to get and then limit the amount of gear?

Nur Tucker: 00:39:28 Oh, of course. You always try to limit the amount of gear. That's for sure. Once I do the amount of gear, mostly in my experience necessary was a four macro or super macro diving because you know, you need that little tripod. Not everybody has to have it. Just that me personally, I liked that little tripod which goes on the clip somewhere and now you have your torches, a few different torches. And then you have there about decides like my fists, some external diopters, magnifying diopters depending on what new scenes. Yeah, I normally put them in my pockets. I have a lot of pockets on my wet, so, and I have some external pockets so that one a diopter here, another diopter, depending on the size of the animal they're about this size that can go outside. So I can, you know screw down on top of the port the torch or several torches and some lighter fate, like some Gel colors in front of the torches.

Nur Tucker: 00:40:31 If I want to make a red light effect or a blue light effect or sometimes you need a condenser for the torch. So it becomes a narrow beam light rather than eliminating everything. And the bigger part of these is the snoot, which is about this big, basically it's this kind of thing. I have a retro snoot is quite bulky and it clips on something, but I got used to having all these things. Sometimes we joke with our friends, they say we like the Christmas trees, things that are hanging from every part, torches and snoots and external throat tripods, whatever. So what you can do if you are not gonna use the snood, maybe don't take the snoot. We knew sometimes you say, you know what, on this side, I don't want the snoot, I'm just going to do maybe panning or I'm going to do backlighting and or some dives. You just take the snoot and you just want to do snooty and just so that you can use it basically.

Raymond: 00:41:23 [Inaudible] So how much would you say before you actually dive you are preparing for the shot?

Nur Tucker: 00:41:32 So of all before you all go on the trip [inaudible] trip that sometimes it takes me six to eight months to get ready because there's so many. Oh yeah, yeah. Actually I had been a mishap. I got ready for this trip indirect. See, and I had a problem with my health and I couldn't even go. And it took me almost a year to get ready for that trip because you have something on your mind that motorbike pitcher and you, so for example, I didn't think it was perfect. So I'm going to go there again to perfect that I sold the mistakes there. I'm not gonna tell you what they are. So I want to do start that. It's not even a mistake, but how can I improve this? I want a bigger angle in the light beam in the front and I want an additional on there.

Nur Tucker: 00:42:14 One for example, I only had one external strobe there. Now I need another one. So I had to order another one. So I need some external flashlights that can come from right from left, things like that or the tripod or you have to have your housing convoluted so each can accept the tripod underneath. And this has to go back and forth. Like for example, my housing should, we can come to that later on is an Austrian make it has to go to Austria to ice. And it's a heavy thing. It's like a four hour, just pillows. Just the housing. Okay. Can you please put the hole underneath so you can, I can put a tripod to it. Can you please put the vacuum on it or the decks. So, or I want the bigger dome port. Can you convert it or you just need some external, just engineers.

Nur Tucker: 00:42:56 Can you just create this for me? Can you just make this for me and the, there's a lot of thinking going on and I also spend all the time in DIY shops, like a bathroom stores and things like that. Yeah. I'm going to sum it up. Yeah. There are little things like you can just get an Armenian bathroom type, cut it and just basically put it in front of the Dome Port just to create a certain effect. It's a constant, or like this, some dishwashing scholars and things like that. Just the no background effects. I'm constantly expanding.

Raymond: 00:43:26 I love it. That's the way that you learn and grow. That's so awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So when it comes to the gear, obviously, let's just go ahead and get on into that now because this is an entirely new world of yeah. Specifically for me, you know, because it's, it's not just full frame versus crop or, you know, having a fast or slow lens or you know, this is entirely different now while they make some incredibly weather sealed DSLRs these days, they're certainly not waterproof, especially down to a depth of 30 plus meters. So, yeah. Can you talk to me about the housing and how much control you have of the camera itself while you're underwater? Okay. Okay.

Nur Tucker: 00:44:08 Alright. I will show you again. I don't like this angle is enough. I don't want to drop my Dome Port, so I don't know if this is a good angle. So this is basically, it's a very large just sun. Yeah. It's large as this is only one part of it. What also makes it bulky and large and heavy is there strobes and destroy barns? Like I even have these, these are the strobes.

Raymond: 00:44:32 Oh Wow. Even those are good size. So that strobes, we're talking about something that's about the size of like a, like a small toaster oven that you're bringing, bringing under water with. Yeah. This is not very slowly, just the arms, obviously that goes onto those.

Nur Tucker: 00:44:46 So the whole thing becomes quite bulky and awkward to carry on land. No, what I can say is the following for a beginner, obviously I can't talk about iPhone photography or GoPro, GoPro. I hear a lot of people have them. Actually you can even attach it on top of your housing for some small weed entertaining videos. And I can't talk about those. But what I can see is for a beginner, it is really not essential to have the top of the range camera and don't do it because first of all, you have to deserve the best camera. That's, I always say, but it's just read, not the camera, it's a the person behind the camera and the right technique, but it's also the lens and the strobes, the strobe arms and the porch. So if you have a compact camera, just start with, you can win competitions with that.

Nur Tucker: 00:45:35 There are a lot of amazing photographers that use a compact camera and win competitions. And these days competitions always have a Compaq subcategory. Oh really? So yeah, that is always a compact category. And sometimes it's really a noises because really great photographers that we know, they cheat and they go into the Compact category, right? Like, come on, you can't just do this. This is really not good anyways. But contact cameras for a starting point are great. Like Sony makes them, I can't tell you which models Sonya has them and I, Canon has them. What else?

Raymond: 00:46:17 I think we're pretty much probably the most popular I would think is the GoPro. [inaudible]

Nur Tucker: 00:46:21 Yeah. GoPros are good. Yeah, exactly. I mean you can do that. What is important as, as much as the camera is that the lens, so for a beginner it is imperative that you have two lenses. One, you need a macro lens, probably a six mil kind of Lens. And it is important that you have a, you know, wide angle like a fish islands and we love Takina for example, 10 to 17. So those are the goal. Two lenses for a beginner. And obviously depending on the lens you use, you need the appropriate port for a macro, you need a flat port for the, the port that you have seen on the screen now is a wide angle law enforcement

Raymond: 00:47:04 That was listening. The porch is the, is the glass or the plastic in front of the Lens. Yeah,

Nur Tucker: 00:47:09 Exactly. Okay. Yeah, exactly. So basically there is the thing and then you just, every time I will take it out and show it to you. Oh, so it's basic. This is the part you see that is the parts. So this is the wide angle one, which is a medium size a port. Basically they can come in bigger sizes, they can come and smaller sizes. And we can talk about the pros and cons later on.

Raymond: 00:47:36 Lens Hood. You can imagine if you're just listening right now, it's like the biggest lens hood that you could possibly put on a camera covered in a is it glass or as a plastic.

Nur Tucker: 00:47:46 This line is glass, but it can be accurately as well. And it doesn't affect the optics. It really doesn't. What is important is the shape of it. Yes. so that was the wide angle one. And if you have a macro lens, like a 60 Mil Lens, then you need a, just the cylindrical thing that goes in, right with the flats port basically as a flap. What? That's what you call. So you start with these two. If you starting get a compact camera, get a macro and a wide angle lens and then the appropriate porch. But it is important obviously when you invest in the camera ask whether there is a housing forage or not. Not every model like for example Sony or as I said, the other brands, they don't necessarily have the housing for it. So it's always important to go and ask which ones have housings and it shouldn't have the touch screen because you should be able to, you know, control it from outside.

Raymond: 00:48:39 Yeah, exactly. So how do you take control of the camera from, from outside? Are there buttons on the housing? Correct.

Nur Tucker: 00:48:45 Yeah. Yeah, there is a everything to be honest. Whatever you do with the camera you can do underwater with the housing. Like this is the back of the housing for example.

Raymond: 00:48:55 Oh yeah. Tons of buttons, tons of buttons.

Nur Tucker: 00:48:58 But this is basically every single item here on the top, on the side, these, they're all corresponding to something on the camera and you can, you have hundred percent control of your camera on the water and it's very easy. Most, you know, your camera is, it's really no problem. And you know, you learn your housing as well. Yeah.

Raymond: 00:49:20 So how about the dexterity between like actually being underwater? I mean are, are, are you using gloves and the control is very intuitive to press those buttons. It's not too tough.

Nur Tucker: 00:49:31 Gloves. Most of the cases you're not allowed gloves because this is the sea culture. They don't want you to use gloves because if you use gloves, you're less careful, less respectful, you touch things, you touch things. So gloves normally are not permitted apart from like shark diving, like when I did a B Muni for example, Oh yeah. Gloves aren't necessarily because tan color, this color is food, so you have to cover yourself with black. So everything is like top to toe black. So we normally don't use gloves obviously apart from Coldwell to diving as well. When you're doing cold water diving, which I normally don't like if you're diving in Norway or wherever, somewhere called [inaudible] class, you need the dry suit, you need gloves. And I heard that the Dexter is the goes down because you freeze. And, and also with the thick glove with the using two bottles become a little bit cumbersome. I heard that, which I don't have much experience on. I like more what?

Raymond: 00:50:28 Yeah, no, I don't blame you. I don't blame you. I remember growing up growing up in California, we would go to the beach often and everybody thinks that like California beaches, like they gotta be the best. Like you gotta go, you know, the California summer or whatever, you dip your toes in that water and it just, you want to get out immediately cause it's so cold. It's cold. Right? It's horrible. It's horrible. It's horrible. I want to talk now a little bit kind of about the m market for underwater photographers to sell prints. This is an area that I know nothing about. Is this something that I guess how big is this? How big is the market for it, for underwater photographers?

Nur Tucker: 00:51:11 I don't know is the answer and probably I'm not even the right person to answer because I usually normally don't sell my underwater image. Online. I would only sell them and actually I'm planning to do some exhibitions next year, but something more artistic rather than just some fish, etc. Which is a little bit premature. I normally don't sell my underwater images. I enter competitions. I'm there mostly competitions. It is a highly competitive market. I don't think it is easy to make money out of underwater images. There are so many good guys. Like for example, I mentioned Martin Age and I haven't mentioned Alex Mustard, but he has been instrumental in improving my photography in the last five, six years. I've done a lot of his workshops on lighting techniques, which is the most important thing on the roadshow. So for example, to us, he's our gods.

Nur Tucker: 00:52:10 He is an amazing photographer. He's an amazing on the rotor photographer. He's a marine biologist. He's very knowledgeable than his photos are. Like, it's, it's just we are hoping that always one day the, exactly. We are trying to be him one day. He's amazing and I am sure he's selling to magazines and some documentaries. I don't know what it is, the books programs and he does sell but I don't think he is making millions out of it either. But it is very competitive unless you are as good as him. And he takes mom photo to perfection with the amazing amount of pixels in it. Nothing is spice for example. Then you take the photo of the pig. Missy horse eat lives in some I think Oregonians or some coral reefs which have the perfect replica of his skin is basically, it's an amazing camouflage.

Nur Tucker: 00:53:04 So it's basically polyps, but they are like little cut flowers and then the seahorse looks like them. So it's difficult to pinpoint them and you find them, they're cutaneous about 20, 30 millimeters, whatever. But when you're taking the full time, you are so close to it as well. In supermicro, you are really close, almost touching distance but not touching. You should not touch the polyps because then they all just go inside and it just kills the photo. Nobody will buy that then. So it is difficult to achieve certain things and perfection and the magazines can be very hard basically. So I'm, I'm not the right person I guess to sell, but I'm sure there are other people. Yeah.

Raymond: 00:53:42 Well you gave me a lot of great names there.

Nur Tucker: 00:53:45 Yeah. Yeah, I definitely, Alex [inaudible] is amazing. Martin Age is really great and there are a lot of good photographers.

Raymond: 00:53:52 Beautiful. Beautiful. So let's talk a little bit more about kind of the I guess creative constraints that you may have. You, you talked about, you know, being down there seeing something and thinking, oh, I've got the wrong lens, you know, what am I supposed to do in this situation? And then trying to figure that out. But what are some other things that that are just a byproduct of being underwater that, that constrain your, your, your creativity or your creative vision?

Nur Tucker: 00:54:24 Ah, that's a good question. That is a very good question. This can always happen. The problem is I don't know whether it happened to me or not because I'm thinking this is how I was thinking at the time. I don't know if it wasn't on there, that kind of depth or pressure or nitrogen level would I have thought a bit better. You will never know that. But it is a, it is a known fact that when you're under pressure every single time it's in certain that let's assume 30 meters, 35 meters, your body's reaction is different.

Raymond: 00:54:56 So we're talking about physical pressure here. Not Mental pressure, physical pressure.

Nur Tucker: 00:55:00 No, no. I'm seeing it affects the, the physical pressure affects the mental pressure. Gotcha. That's, that's what I'm saying. So basically when you are, when you are at the 30 meters or 40 meters, that everybody's reaction and every single time is different by the way is different. And I think a, the pressure would be the accumulated nitrogen in your body because of the pressure affects your mental capacity and your thinking speed and you can effect, it may not effect, as I said, every single time is different because of that. For example, when I did a deep dive course one day, they made me do some mental maths at 43 meters. They just bring a slate with you and they just give you some calculations, just how quickly can you do it. So they compare it about land on land and at 43 meters. At that occasion, it didn't affect me with some simple math. It didn't affect me, but it can have effect. Stress I think is important. If you are really stressed and I get stressed a lot, sometimes I take it so seriously. I'm like, I should, I have to create something. I have to create something. There must be some creativity. Already 14 minutes past the dye was finishing and I haven't done anything. Sometimes I stress myself and it makes it worse. You should just be relaxed and fine. Okay. Know. But I take adversaries like this.

Raymond: 00:56:25 Okay, so then, so then how do you, how do you judge, what do you need to capture to call it a good day then?

Nur Tucker: 00:56:37 First of all, you really want to maximize the probability by staying until the end of your lab dive time normally is to 60 minutes. A lot of people be notice 7 to 8 minutes. You can increase. Obviously if you're agreed beforehand with your buddies, you don't want to make them wait on the boat wet and cold, et cetera. Of course. Let's assume 60 minutes, you're allowed time. You wouldn't get up at 30 minutes minutes because why, why do you do that? Because it's just the probability and you never know. You may not see anything for 50 minutes on the 60th minutes. Sometimes just the most amazing thing appears. It always happens sometimes just before you're about the surface, that five meters you see the most amazing creature. So you want to maximize the time to increase the probability of success or seeing something interesting, which I do, which I do, and just click away, tried to use other things.

Nur Tucker: 00:57:28 If one thing doesn't work, sometimes it happens. You know, like sometimes I think my mind stopped you just for example, there was a seahorse. I know what to do with it. Ah, okay. Left writing, writing, writing. You know, you just say, okay, I want to do backlighting. The strobes at three o'clock, you know, nine o'clock, three o'clock, nine o'clock, strobes and this, you know how it works and you use this app, stop that shutter speed. It's not working. It's all washed up. You tried this, you tried that change ISO. Nothing is working. Sometimes you go lock Ross wrong. Nothing I do is working and maybe this looks like something, you know, something is not working. What am I doing it just, just take a minute, just okay. Chill out. Just come back to it again or just say, you know what, for some reason this is not working, let's try something else. Why don't I do panning instead, for example? Or it can happen or you do abstract. Nothing is working. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm going to find some sea squirts and just do some backlighting and just do some abstract on those. You can always do something.

Raymond: 00:58:30 Of course. I don't know if if you can hear her right there.

Nur Tucker: 00:58:34 Oh, lovely. Oh No, no worries. Lovely. Hello.

Raymond: 00:58:45 I apologize for that.

Nur Tucker: 00:58:46 No worries. No worries. No worries.

Raymond: 00:58:48 We we went camping a few weeks ago and

Nur Tucker: 00:58:53 They did very well, to be honest. They didnt bother you for a long time. I think they did really well.

Raymond: 00:58:57 I bribed them with going outside and playing in the pool after, after we're done with the phone call.

Nur Tucker: 00:59:03 Ah, that's nice. That's nice. Okay.

Raymond: 00:59:06 Okay, I got just, just a few last questions here for ya. Now we talked a little bit about kind of using a compact camera. You know, you don't need that top of the line gear to get started. So No. If somebody is just into underwater photography and they do go out and buy that compact camera or if they have a GoPro, do you have any little tips for them to get the most out of a just to get the best photos that they can?

Nur Tucker: 00:59:34 Yes, of course. I think I will go back to my clothes ever lessons myself about what was important to learn in underwater photography. I am assuming these people already have the basic knowledge about which I didn't have when I started the ISO shutter speed aperture priority. I'm actually not hearing you. Can you hear me?

Raymond: 00:59:57 I can hear you. Yeah,

Nur Tucker: 00:59:58 You hear me? Okay, fine. So I'm assuming they already know about the basics of pressure prior to shutter speed, ISO sensitivity, et Cetera, having had that and if they have the right lenses, do you remember what I said? They need the 60 mil and a wide angle and they need proper strobes. If they have the strobes, proper strobes, manually operated strobes they can actually do really well. In terms of the tips, the first thing to look at, which I learned and I think it is instrumental is creating and negative space, which means when you point in shoot to a fish and you will see there is the fish behind, there is some rock, some reef, some whatever, that maybe there is another fish that is a big cacophony in the background. That could be a good textbook picture for identifying the species, but it will never be an artistic picture.

Nur Tucker: 01:01:00 Creating negative spaces separate that subject from the background somehow. It could be sometimes the subject against subject, you know, it could be like a little fish on a beautiful and nominee, so it's just their nominee in the back. Or it could be just just the back black background or completely blue background, like the blue of the sea or something else. But just to create that negative space, they can look at a lot of magazine photos, maybe just to see some underwater dive magazines, diver magazines, just to see how that is achieved. That's important. The second important, this we always say reduce the column of water. That basically means don't take it from a distance. Always go very, very near the subject. Get close, get close. Even now, after all these years, I didn't like in like common s's. I put clothes, get clothes, get clothes.

Nur Tucker: 01:02:01 I mean like sometimes even, I forget. You have to get as close as possible. And we always say many underwater pictures like taken from many of those or majority of the underwater photos are taken from very similar clothes, distances almost touching like as if I'm touching this screen. Some of them are touching some of them. Even the rec photos may be your only two meters. Maybe you're one or two meters in front of the rack. You can just see the whole direct because it's a wide angle lens. So reduce the column of water because Walter is not like air and not every water is as clear as obviously every sea. So when you reduce the column of water, you increase the clarity of the picture, reduced the backs, catheter, the hanging things in the object, in the water. So that is important. Always get close.

Nur Tucker: 01:02:51 What else do we have? Oh you always look up because many beginner photographers they will shoot like this. Basically like that's because, yeah, because you are swimming or floating and the fishes on underneath, you just shoot like that. That will never ever make a good picture. We always learned to look up or just go at the eye level of the subject. For example, if it's a little blending that you have to get to the eye level and then make sure and have an eye contact, try to have an eye contact. If the blend is looking that way it will not make a good shot basically. Or if you can only see one eye again, that's not very good. We tried to see both eyes and we tried to have eye contact, whether it's a sea horse, whether it is a blenny or a goby. And you know, if it's looking like this, this is not gonna look very good basically. So I think those are the ideas I contact. Look up, not down, reduce the column of water. And the, what was the other one? Get close to the subject.

Raymond: 01:03:54 Did you close? Of course. Of course. Those are great tips. Those are great tips. I'm I've the opportunity to to go on a cruise this fall with my family down down to Mexico. And I think I'm going to give diving a shot. I've never done it before. I think that I'm willing to try it and I think that after hearing these tips from you I'm going to be better prepared to at least attempt to to photograph something under there. So I appreciate you sharing those for sure.

Nur Tucker: 01:04:23 Oh, no problem. Can I add one thing? I think this is important. I sold my old housing to somebody and he came back asking some questions, Jimmy saying, look at why my thought was on not, you know, like this why [inaudible] blown up by our, they'll say cyani not like the blues that you shoot and he said he's doing TTL mode. It is really important not to Tate, not to use the TTL mode off the camera. It should be on the men. It should be on the manual node. So no, no cause then no, no TTL mode because that ridicules it because you want to be in whole control of the camera. You don't want to give the decision making of hot power of the strobes are going to be to your camera. GTL means through the Lens is basically the camera, the size, depending on the light coming from the subject through the Lens. And it just says, okay, this is how strong I'm going to make strobes. And it made me sound a stand. It doesn't have the idea of what you're gonna achieve or what is the plan that you want to see. So you want to be in control please. No TTL. That is my recommendation.

Raymond: 01:05:30 I love that. That's great. And that actually what you just said there brings up one last question that I have for you before I let you go. I know that we've been talking far longer than, than I said that this would take. But whenever I look for like I have, I have multiple GoPros and whenever I like I look online for GoPro accessories, one of the big things is dive like a little dive housing for the GoPro. And it seems like the Dome is always like, like a dark red color. And I never understood why that was. And yet I look at your dome and it's, it's very clear. Do you have any insights as to, as to why that is

Nur Tucker: 01:06:08 Your, your don't want is dark red color?

Raymond: 01:06:10 No. So like whenever I look on mine so if you just search, I'm sure like GoPro dyes filters, they're always

Nur Tucker: 01:06:18 Okay. Red Interest. Ah, okay. Okay. I understand. I kind of understand. I am not sure but this could be the reason I made look into it and even get back to you later on. Are you taking readout flash

Raymond: 01:06:36 More than like yes. Yes. Correct.

Nur Tucker: 01:06:38 Huh? That is I think the reason, so what's happening is you're actually, we don't know, are you using a red filter? That's my understanding. We sometimes use magic filters is basic. There are a red filters. What happens is when you do not use flash, I mean actually if I want to use a flash, flash falls off very quickly, like two, three meters and then it pulls off very quickly. If you want to eliminate a wreck which goes on 35, 40 meters or even 50 meters, flash is mark on the work. Maybe just the front and then it's not going to work. So what for that kind of photography, we use magic filters called red filters. So you basically behind your Lens, you just put the red filter is called the magic filter. It basically I think helps the light to reach out to you more so it for longer. My understanding is light travels longer when you do that. I see. That's very, I understand. Yes. So it's allowing you to take photos, otherwise you could not have taken without strobes or at certain depths. For example, with a GoPro a, if you're going to go to 20 meters that we don't, that redness probably it will struggle to find a light.

Raymond: 01:07:55 I'm pretty sure it can only go down to 10 but that's still a great, a great tip for sure.

Nur Tucker: 01:08:01 Yeah. I don't know how many because I don't use GoPro. That could be an explanation, but I will look into it for you. I think that's the x, but look up magic filters and how they work. Yeah. Magic red filters underwater. How they work.

Raymond: 01:08:14 Well, that's been something that

Nur Tucker: 01:08:15 Has interested me. And for some reason I never ever once even considered to find out until I'm right here with you right now. So yeah. How many meters you use the 10 meters?

Raymond: 01:08:27 The GoPro? Yeah. I believe it's only waterproof down to 10 meters. And then of course they have extra housings that I think I think at most totally taking a shot in the dark here. But I think it goes down to 25, 30 Max. I think anything more than that, it just doesn't, it doesn't operate. You know, it's really made for just like, you know,

Nur Tucker: 01:08:44 I think that's the reason I would think of because that's the only time I've ever used the red filter. Probably that's what's going on. I hope that's the case. Well, I don't want my credibility.

Raymond: 01:08:57 Well, yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Nor I, I really want to thank you for, for coming on sharing your extreme wealth of knowledge when it comes to taking underwater photography. I truly do appreciate you sharing as much as you did for the listeners who want to know more about you, can you share where they can find and connect with you online?

Nur Tucker: 01:09:20 Oh Great. Thank you so much. First of all, tax for the opportunity. I really enjoyed this because the host is very friendly and I think they liked your questions. You ask very, very good questions. I'm really happy. Clearly you're very knowledgeable about photography yourselves. You can understand what the audience may be interested in. And it's important to basically pass on the knowledge of underwater to everybody because it's such a lost place. And a, it would be nice to protect the oceans as well with this knowledge. Now in terms of if anybody wants to follow up, I would be flaccid. I have a website it's called www north taco.com and you are t u c k e r.com. That's my website and you can get in touch with me through my website and you will see my underwater images. My equine images, which we didn't talk here today. You will see some exhibitions, some blog, et cetera. Otherwise I'm on Instagram. It's a, it's at North Tucker photography on Instagram. So these are the two places that you can get in touch with me. Anytime you have any questions, I'm happy to follow up.

Raymond: 01:10:30 Awesome. Again, I will I will link to those in the show notes for sure. So if anybody's listening, if they could just swipe up and click a link and connect with you right away. But again, I have to thank you again so much for coming in.

Nur Tucker: 01:10:42 No, thank you. I really enjoyed this. Thank you. I enjoyed this.

Raymond: 01:10:46 First thing I gotta say is, nor if you are listening to this interview back and you're listening right now. I just have to say thank you so much for sharing all of the information that you did. It was truly eye opening. You know, I don't think that a lot of people truly understand what goes into underwater photography. And you know, I myself was a bit arrogant going into this and not an arrogant, arrogant, I just didn't, what was all involved in that was definitely my biggest takeaway was, was how much you need to prepare beforehand before going out. Because this is definitely a genre of photography that requires very much thinking in, in planning beforehand. Because, because what you don't, you don't have another option, you know, a few, a few months ago in the Facebook group, it was either Michael or Jason who posted a, a video of an astronaut who was going out on a spacewalk and he forgot to put in the memory card in his camera, you know, and you can just go back inside the ship real quick and put it in and then go right back out.

Raymond: 01:11:55 You know, this is something that requires a lot of planning and when Nord taught me today was that planning ahead is what will bring you success, you know? And, and honestly, I think that's something that we can all bring into our respective styles of photography. So that is it for this week. I want to thank you again for listening to the beginner photography podcast. I want to invite you to come back and join me next week. So until then, I want you to get out. I want you to keep shooting, want you to stay safe. I want you to focus on yourself and that's it. I love you all. Bye.

Outro: 01:12:34 If you enjoy today's podcast, please leave us a review in iTunes or your favorite podcast player and continue the conversation with Raymond and other listeners of the podcast by joining the beginner photography podcast Facebook group today. Thank you. We'll see you again next week.